From: Wed 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [SSusers] Under SS CabinetTo: "'Stephen Laslo'" Also, here's a bunch of comments from people who had built/modified the cabinet (this and my previous submission used to live on SSUG.ORG): Hints and Tips: Building the Under-the-Mark V Storage Cabinet Collected excerpts from the SSUG-L archives Loosely edited by Geoff Shepherd At various times, the subject of the Under-the-Mark V Storage Cabinet surfaces in the group conversation. Since considering building the cabinet myself, I asked a couple questions and did some research. For benefit of the SSUG I've assembled many of the pertinent messages into this document. Hope it helps anyone looking to build the cabinet. Plans are available on the SSUG-L web site at www.ssug.org, in the 1987 Popular Science Projects Yearbook, and the May/June 1982 issue of Shopsmith's Hands On magazine (pg. 13). I received a photocopied set of these plans in the "Welcome" packet when I purchased my SS510. From: Kevin Miller I built the critter. It's great. I used some scabby old cd plywood. It doesn't look very pretty, but it sure is a handy place to store all the odd sized and shaped attachments. It is worth the effort of building it. ...Kevin From: "Mark R. Eaton" <102135.3674@COMPUSERVE.COM> I was looking through some of my old "Hands-On" magazines last night and saw plans for a tool storage cabinet that rides suspended below the Mark V on the lower tubular ways. If this cabinet does get the OK for the web page you should watch out for one thing. I believe that the plans were designed around a model 510 Mark V. If you have a model 500 you will have to make some adjustments to the design due to the width of a model 500 table and carraige. When you lower the table on a model 500 the table tubes hit the top of this cabinet. You can make the cabinet narrower or you can put 2 slots along the top of it for clearance. I recommend making the cabinet narrower due to the saw dust that will be collected inside cabinet through the slots. A customer of mine mentioned this to me when we were considering making this in one of our Sawdust Sessions. I hope this helps. Regards Mark Eaton 510 since 1988 ALL-IN-ONE WOOD TOOLS Canadian Shopsmith Dealer From: Larry Rogers Mark, Thanks for the advice. Actually I had planned to double-check all the dimensions for fit and function before proceeding. I also want to do some redesign to better fit how I would use it, the accessories I own, etc. For instance, instead of making doors for the backside I was thinking to close it off with peg-board and hang some things from there. Also make better drawers with store-bought guides and the like. I have an older machine (purchased in 1982) and it has the small table. I thought it was a 500 but it doesn't say. I thought the 510 was the current version with the big table. If I ever buy the upgrade kit ($500+ is very spendy for me) I'll have to rebuild this cabinet. By the way, if I do redesign it to fit my needs, and I plan to, I can draw up the plans and distribute them to the group. This would not be a violation of Shopsmith's copyright. My biggest concern with the cabinet is the weight of the jointer, for two reasons: bending that low to pick it up and man-handling it; and the strength of the cabinet to hold it. To make it easier to pick up I thought of placing it on a sliding tray but I'm concerned about the tipping and twisting stresses that will put on the cabinet. Any thoughts? I'm thinking of using MDF instead of plywood to construct the cabinet just because I've never used it before, I've heard good things about it, and I want to try it. It seems strong enough. Any advice? Larry Rogers Milwaukie, OR From: Kevin Miller I think you've got the numbers reversed. I built it around a 500 and haven't had any trouble in that area - it may be that the plans in the Popular Mechanics Yearbook and the plans in Hands On varies slightly, I don't know. Anyway, mine fits well. Another poster mentioned that he wasn't gonna put doors in the back. If I was doing it over, I wouldn't either. I never use 'em, and they are usually knocked slightly open from the stuff sliding in and out which lets sawdust in. No biggie, but not optimal either. I don't know that I'd use MDF tho. I've never used it, but have always considered it glorified particle board which sags a lot. I may be wrong tho - it may be a great substitute for plywood. I wood go w/a nicer grade tho if I had it to do over, but only for asthetic reasons. The idea of a pegboard on the back is a good one. Another idea I've come across is to get a 18" length of 1" - 1 1/2" PVC pipe and strap it to the side of box vertically to hold the miter guage. ...Kevin From: Shp Smith ...One item I would like to point out however.................Please make sure to specify to check all dimensions before starting your projects... These are old plans and I would hate for someone to ruin a good piece of wood by not checking first. Sincerely, Shopsmith Inc. Dixie Moore From: Chuck Phillips I have never seen this article (web page, here I come...) I just looked at all that space under my SS, built a box as wide as the frame tubes (mod 500) and as long as would fit. The hardest thing was figuring out how to hang the thing without interfering with the power head. Finally wound up using some angle iron and spacer blocks at each end. It's quite handy having all those little bits right there, instead of searching through the shop. Chuck Phillips mid 70's mod 500 on a 6' x 13' balcony... From: Steve Jaynes I've been looking for another reference to the above plan, as I knew I had it somewhere in my shop. I checked my stack of Hands-On magazines for a copy of the May-Jun issue listed in the index on the Web site. No luck, but I was sure I had seen is some where in my shop. BINGO.... I found the article today in the 1987 Popular Science Projects Yearbook, which was one of the "free" demo gifts Shopsmith used to give out for attending a live demo. The specific reference is pages 165 through 168. I haven't checked the plans against the ones Jim posted, but will thoughout the week. I saw a couple of these books in my favorite used bookstore the last time I was down parting with money (buying books I really don't have room for!). We might form a treasure hunt, and find out who has old copies of these books and/or Hands-On magazines. I need to consolidate my shop, so I can get my wife's car back in the garage this winter. I am considering the under the Shopsmith cabinet as one of the elements in a major organization effort. To that end, I also picked up a very good book titled: "Mobile Power Tool Centers" by John McPherson. I plan on stealing as many good ideas as possible from what ever sources, to return some floorspace to the car AND make the change-over from garage -to-shop and back again as quick and painless as possible. Regards, Steven R. (The ToolMeister) Jaynes From: keller@MMR.LUCENT.COM Storage space: I'm trying to do the same "clear out the garage for winter" project. Didn't want the "underneath" approach, cause I like to hose the place out occasionally, so I'm in process of building an "Over the Mark V" cabinet. Basically it looks something like a hutch, and the Mark V parks underneath. It's on castors, so it can follow the SS around if I decide to work out in the driveway. From: Mike and Suzanne DeHaemer Steve Jaynes wrote: > I plan on stealing as many good ideas as possible > from what ever sources, to return some floorspace to the car AND make > the change-over from garage -to-shop and back again as quick and > painless as possible. Here's a possible idea to steal: The Oct-Nov issue of Woodsmith, Vol 18, No. 107, had plans for a roll-around table saw stand. The stand was basically a stationary type cabinet to provide extra stability when using the table saw. But when you needed to move it around, a pair of foot operated cams extended the casters so you could roll the table around. I thought it was pretty slick. The stand for my 10ER will need to be replaced before long, and I think I may use the same technique. Mike DeHaemer From: "Mathews, Mike" I hope this gets to those that were inquiring about the Under SS storage cabinet before construction begins. About six weeks ago I completed the one per the plans exactly as detailed on the SSUG-L web site. There are a couple dimensions that I would advise changing. Forgive me for not being able to confirm exact dimensions but I am at work and not near my SS to check these out. I would advise double checking my suggested dimensions before cutting. 1.) If I remember correctly the cabinet depth is 16" front to back. The 2 vertical tubes under the SS table have some clearance dimension between them like 14-1/2". This causes an interference problem if you want to lower the table below the center of the SS spindle. ( ex: to edge dowel two boards to be joined. The tubes hit the top of the cabinet. Solution: build the cabinet to a dimension that will fit between the vertical tubes, and center the cabinet so the tubes pass to the front and back sides of the cabinet. 2.) The single sliding shelf in the longer section will not accommodate the table saw rip fence. The overall height of the table saw rip fence is taller than the space created. Solution: Lower the shelf guides 1" to allow the rip fence (and other accessories) to fit on this shelf. An added note to item 1 above. If the cabinet front to back dimension is decreased, Will the drawers still slide out when the doors are open? Since the doors are inset in the openings, in order to get the sliding drawers to slide out, the doors must be swung 180 degrees. If the narrower front-to-back dimension is to small, when the doors are opened they might hit the SS legs, thus preventing the drawers from being allowed to clear the hinge side door edge. If you have any questions feel free to call or email me... Mike Mathews SS 510, jointer, bandsaw, 6"belt sander since 6/'96 wk 517/764-9388 hm 517/784-6473 mathewsm@macsteel.attmail.com From: Peter Hansen Having that rare combination of time and a supply of half-inch plywood, I just finished building the storage cabinet from the plans on Jim Wirtz's web page. Having done so, I have a few comments. First, although I deviated from the plans by omitting the doors (I guess I didn't have quite enough plywood), I am very impressed with the amount of storage space. In particular, I now have a home for my jointer which was banished when I got a bandsaw a couple of months ago. More importantly, I can finally keep my SS and all my accessories together. Since I have a late-model 510, the top of the cabinet interferes with the lower parts of the table support tubes when doing horizontal boring. I plan to saw away enough of the top to clear the tubes, about two inches on each side of the top. Of course, this will interfere with the doors I plan to complete as soon as I have another time/plywood conjunction. As for the problem of the fence being to long, I simply place the fence on the shelf perpendicular to the long axis of the cabinet. Since I don't have doors on my cabinet, this works fine. Although the plans don't mention it, the cabinet works fine with the casters on my mkV. In all, the cabinet is a radical improvement over the tool shelf It replaced. Finally, it was really cool to build something off a web site, another one of those cultural milestones, I guess. Jim has my thanks for a cool website! (www.cris.com/~JWirtz/ssug) Peter Hansen From: Larry Rogers Mike Mathews wrote about constructing the under-the-ss-cabinet: > 1.) If I remember correctly the cabinet depth is 16" front to back. The > 2 vertical tubes under the SS table have some clearance dimension between > them like 14-1/2". This causes an interference problem if you want to > lower the table below the center of the SS spindle. ( ex: to edge dowel > two boards to be joined. The tubes hit the top of the cabinet. I finished my cabinet last September and did not experience this problem. The difference is I own a model 500 which is the machine the cabinet was originally designed for. Perhaps, instead of making the cabinet narrower, you might make in shorter to accomodate the 510. > 2.) The single sliding shelf in the longer section will not accommodate > the table saw rip fence. The overall height of the table saw rip fence is > taller than the space created. > Solution: Lower the shelf guides 1" to allow the rip fence (and other > accessories) to fit on this shelf. Similarly, the 500's fence is shorter than the 510's and fits the shelf as designed. Lower it as Mike suggests for the 510. > An added note to item 1 above. If the cabinet front to back dimension is > decreased, Will the drawers still slide out when the doors are open? > Since the doors are inset in the openings, in order to get the sliding > drawers to slide out, the doors must be swung 180 degrees. If the > narrower front-to-back dimension is to small, when the doors are opened > they might hit the SS legs, thus preventing the drawers from being > allowed to clear the hinge side door edge. This would definitely be a problem if you narrow the cabinet. Larry Rogers Milwaukie, Oregon From: Alain Gardner Hi, Does the under SS Storage Cabinet basically just hang from the bottom tubes? I was able to print the plans out, but they are very, very blurry. Does it need a support of some sort, to prevent sagging? I'm worried that the wieght will knock the alignment of my machine off. Alain From: Kevin_Miller@MAIL.CI.JUNEAU.AK.US Yup - it just hangs. I've never noticed any sagging and since it's on the bottom tubes it doesn't affect the alignment - at least not on my 500... ...Kevin From: "Mathews, Mike" 1. Yes, it hangs from the bottom tubes near the ends close to the legs. 2. The bottom of the unit has some stiffeners that run lengthwise. I don't think mine is sagging (at least not yet). Make sure you hang the unit and load it up before you finally mount the doors and hinges. I guess this means there is some sag...:) 3. I don't think the unit will cause alignment problems. Mike Mathews From: Robert Westbrook: I was thinking of building the Under-the-Mark-V Storage Cabinet but I rotate my SS around the shop quit a bit. Does it make it harder to move around with the weight of the tools and the wood? Robert Westbrook email: rwestbro@acmg2sgi.gsfc.ecs.nasa . From: Raymond Berry Did my under the SS much like Peter did, except cut holes front and back to let the 510 table tubes down more. Also, above the top drawer I added a shelf (1/4" plywood) and drilled different size holes to hold the chisels while turning. It slides in and out just like a drawer would. Don't have the plans in front of me right now to see if it called for doors on the back side, I did add them and wish I didn't. They keep comming open if I push too much stuff in there. Oh well, live and learn. Sure do enjoy the extra storage tho.... Ray Berry Albuq. NM From: FrankSronce My cabinet has been hanging under my SS since 1982, including bouncing around from Virginia, to Mississippi, to two locations in Texas. I have never had any problem with rolling it around, and the extra weight helps a bunch when you are in the lathe position. Frank - Fort Worth SS since 1982, with lots of extra stuff